Up to a cap of 50g that decays by 5g per month of no respec. 6. 66 Likes. The first time you unlearn your talents it will cost you 1G, then raised by 5G each consecutive time so 5G, 10G, 15G, etc…. I love pvp and I am sure I will be in pvp spec most of the time. It’s a required gold sink or add a 5k dual spec not the 1k from WOTLK + cooldown. Added in Classic World of Warcraft. . On lower levels (before level 22), this can be done with a combination of Frost Nova, Flamestrike, and Arcane Explosion, but this is hard to pull off. After playing both World of Warcraft's new 10. If Azerothian Diamond and Large Opal cost around twice as much as one Star Ruby, then you should continue making Ruby Pendant of Fire up to 275. Or why does the respec cost not reset weekly? That way everyone wins. It is a quest reward. For example: head strat2%, gloves 2%, ring mara 1%, Trinket 1%. It's hard to predict how the inflation is going to shake out considering bots will have to devise the most efficient way to generate raw vendor gold with the new restrictons. My question is where does it start (1g, 5g?) and what is in the middle? How many times can. gg In WoTLK Classic, you can have two specs at the same time, and that’s called a dual spec. Dash—Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes down to 3 minutes. Date: October 6, 2022. Throughout TBC and Classic, Ferals have been a relatively weak DPS class. At level 80 respec to your actual PvE spec. PVP Multiplier: 1. Cost: None: Range: 50000 yards (Anywhere - Unlimited): Cast time: Instant: Cooldown: n/a: GCD: 0 seconds: Effect: Dummy Value: 1 PVP Multiplier: 1 Server-side scriptOne restriction is very important. Need. In addition, the conversion of this extra Energy into bonus damage now scales. I don’t know what to say to get this more attention. I’d love it to start decaying after a week. This effect cannot occur more often than once every 6 seconds. At level 80 respec to your actual PvE spec. Frequently Asked Questions; Northrend (More. 2. After playing both World of Warcraft's new 10. WoW Classic The Burning Crusade Classic Discussion. 1000g cold weather flying. Nah, not worth it imo. But it will go to a minimum of 10g once the cost goes over 10G it will never drop below it. Introduced in patch 3. Both factions can also learn the Master Alchemy skill from Lorokeem in Lower City, Shattrath. Classic Van I remember we could not, where as later Expacs we could. I agree that the cost should decay much faster at the very least. 4. If you want to AoE level from this point on, now is the best time to respec into Fire. You can learn this skill in Shadowmoon Valley, or in Dalaran. Definitely get dual spec first though, because you cant fly in northrend till 77 anyway, and by then youll make the 1k questing (this kind of extends to regular and epic flying as well, I would definitely not buy flying until you had a surplus 1k gold to spend on dual spec on prepatch day). Triple talent specialization. atm I'm at 50g a respec, so use the preview talent changes and you won't have that problemThe lower $29. Question. This will continue all the way until it stops at 50G, and then each time after that it will remain at 50G. Good point, although if you have a Scribe alt or guidie the cost of a glyph is like 1g, few g tops. The Critical Strike rating granted by this buff will scale depending on your Skinning level, giving you more the higher you are. I have a memory of the cata pre-patch in wotlk. Comments. 5k per character, not including professions. I think arcane has a 2 button rotation and rogue is also 2 buttons, plus a few dots/debuffs/buffs. 1 week ago Web I have heard talk from my guild members of a system being installed that lets you have 2 talent specs and it no longer costs to go between those two "locked" specs. Thereza-netherwind August 16, 2021, 4:55am #1. Wowhead's guide to World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King expansion! Includes information about raids, character classes, spells, achievements and more! Live PTR 10. I don't think so. It should be a standard 5 gold per respec if your going to charge anything at all. It doesn’t have to be free, but 100g to tank a 10/25 and then go back to pvping is too much. Jeez, that 5g I've spent on ability ranks is really going to add up on top of the 100's I've spent on respec costs /s lol. Every month your respec cost will be reduced by 5g (Down to 10g). This provides a passive critical strike rating, up to +40 critical strike at 450 Skinning skill with level 55. Expert engineering yields two distinct disciplines: gnome and goblin. Thing is DKs have a buff for 20% haste which they dont stack with wf and DKs do more damage. Respec costs in WotLK. I love pvp and I am sure I will be in pvp spec most of the time. 34. Have you never seen classic WoW fans argue high respec costs were a good thing either? Not really, no. gold is so valuable in vanilla and the thought of spending 100g in a week to change your spec twice is scary (weekly pvp + weekend raiding). 2. WoW General Forum. No need to respec so often…. Cost: 8% of base mana: Range: 40 yards (Long) Cast time: Instant: Cooldown: 3 minutes: GCD: 1. rRobban. Learn about Major and Minor glyphs, all available glyphs for your class, how to craft them, and how to level inscription. 0 * The cost to unlearn talents will now decay over time. Need. Since y'all want to correctly downvote a wrong answer, here is the correct answer:. Preset: Add another weight. You can change talents as soon as you get them which is level 10. You can pick up the Master of Elixirs quest from Lorokeem in Shattrath City. •. Using Jordan's Weapon Notes, find some Whitestone Oak Lumber, Bailor's Refined Ore Shipment, Jordan's Smithing Hammer, and a Kor Gem, and return them to Jordan Stilwell in Ironforge. And that’s not even accounting the time spent gearing your pvp toon and the fact that pve spec won’t be required for raid tiers on farm/easier one. " These servers are going to be disconnected from all other Classic realms. Power Infusion (Discipline): Infuses the target with power, increasing spell casting speed by 20% and reducing the mana cost of all spells by 20%. In fact in those era, Blizzard didn’t let players the possibility to respec as they want, dissuading them by rising the cost of respec each. It is easily the strongest pet ability there is, as it is the only one that also increases the Hunter's damage too. You will need at least 82 Handful of Cobalt Bolts and 14 Volatile Blasting Trigger using this guide. Ferocity - Ferocity pets are strictly damage dealer type pets. Of course pre-patch will reset our talents. This guide will provide a list of recommended spell rotations to maximize your effectiveness in raids and dungeons, as well as list your most important cooldowns. Viability of Shadow Priests in WoW Classic PvE Content Shadow Priest will always be asked to respec into Holy, by their Guilds, by their friends, or even by random strangers in Azeroth, and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. In this Class Trainer guide, we will detail the locations of all Paladin Class Trainers for the Wrath Classic. Paragon Point Respec Cost - Respeccing Paragon points also incurs a cost based on your character's level. 2 patch and World of Warcraft: Classic's new Season of Discovery at BlizzCon 2023 over the weekend, I was shocked to discover that there were asIn Classic you'll want to do the low level quests when you are still low level. Lich KingFrostmourne hungers. Legion Respec Costs Removed; Talent Changing Restricted. In Classic, the cost of respeccing is ridiculously prohibitive. So costs you totally 7,2 gold + some time. Frost until 60 then fire, because Living Bomb is the business. They can feel free to go play Diablo 2 if that is the case. But the max cost to respec stays the same and takes 30 days to go down by 5g. I always see this argument brought up when dual spec is discussed. If someone wanted to pay for your time, would $15 for 2 hours be a good rate?. Return to board index. The Test of Righteousness. you can during the leveling process and then wearing the tabard through. 8. Look, I know I’m not the first, and won’t be the last to ask about this. 1. You can save tons of different profiles for each class. For anyone that is trying to get the Botanist's Field Guide in classic WotLK at lvl 80, it was very doable as a solo lvl 80 Boomkin on. 4. There is still a gold cost every time you change your talents like there was throughout Classic. 3? Or I suppose, has anyone put some real thought into it? Will more people be switching to Transmute Mastery in 3. 04) Radius: 8 yards PVP Multiplier: 1: Flags: Cannot be used while shapeshifted; Cannot be reflected; All spell effects are harmful; No Aura IconIn this section of the guide, we will be going over all the essential talents, what they do and what the options are. In WoW Classic and The Burning Crusade, reset talents points is very annoying. If you wish to specialize, you will have to find others who have narrower fields of study. WoW Classic Wrath of the Lich King Classic Discussion. If you respec at a trainer, your current page is reset and the inactive one is unchanged. 질주—Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes down to 3 minutes. Welcome to Warcraft Tavern’s Engineering guide! In this guide, we’ll provide everything you need to max out your Engineering skill, from the materials required to level up your profession to the best recipes to follow. I have a simple question I couldn’t find an answer for. There are several rings avaialble for purchase in Dalaran, which cost 10k gold and can be upgraded throughout the expansion. The respec cost also adds a bit of player choice. That means it’ll cost you 100g per week if you want to raid. No idea lol. 04) (SP mod: 0. Characterized by the use of a Felguard, providing Demonic Pact, and changing into a demon through Metamorphosis. They'll reset your talents for you, but at a cost of 1g. At 50, most of a server's population will camp their main/farm spec and I'd argue less gold on a server overall is ever removed and. Engineering 1-450. WoW Classic General Discussion. I see they cost gold to change/respec and it keeps getting higher each time! Was told in game there is no cap to this and some classes that have to spec in and out of things are hitting huge limits. 0. Date: October 6, 2022. 2% increased chance per talent point. WotLK Professions & Skills. ³ Pet and Runebound Firelord mount available in modern World of Warcraft® realms after the realms restart with the Guardians of the. Always up to date with the latest patch (3. I haven't played any version of wow since like naxx wotlk classic and I'm coming back for this. Any feedback. In World of Warcraft Classic, you can visit a trainer and pay a gold cost to change your selected talent points. Profession Changes in Season of Mastery. I assume it was not always this high (can't imagine people paying 50g to respec all the time preBC), although I have no real idea, I've only been playing WoW for 6 months. Various-Dot-9182. Simply put: Class trainers are only found in Azeroth. WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion. It implies that people respec just as often with a 50g cap as they do with a 25g cap or anything less than 50. Originally Posted by Millyraynge. Posted 2016/05/16 at 11:06 PM by perculia. 1. Step up at lvl 70 from BC to WotLK is (142/120) = 1. WoW Classic Wrath of the Lich King Classic Discussion. Engineering uses ores, metals, and stone to craft. Social - allows you to easily view friends also use Carbonite, along with it's Punk detection system which alerts you if. For this reason Goblin is considered the best choice for raiding. Esperia-whitemane April 6, 2021, 11:14pm #22. Atleast 9% with swords or 6% with axes (depending if you have edgemasters) you can actually get those hit numbers with pre raid if you farm leather/mail armor. Dual spec was originally introduced into the game during the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. Zul Drak as well as through several quest lines. One will refuse, that Priest is committed to the. I don’t know what to do to convince you to make the right decision. From level 22 on, the preferred technique is to kill enemies with Blizzard and Improved Blizzard. When I instead visited the trainer in Stormwind I could do it. Cast Multi-Shot (Unlocked at level 18) if you are fighting 2 or more enemies. I went Gnomish first to craft Gnomish Battle Chicken just in case it's not banned on Warcraft Logs, then I swapped to Goblin for sappers. Group by: None Slot Level Source. My knowledge of alchemy is vast. With the upcoming pre-patch, will there be a talent reset and will the historical cost increments be reset? So, the cost right now tops out at 50g. I was wondering, if I roll a PvE talent tree until 60 how do I change talents in classic. Changes and additions made to reputation vendors and item drops in patches 1. Speed: 100%. Kommentar von ttsaypra This will be a itemlevel 226 belt made by 450 tailors, the belt is very nice but the mats also seem to be expensive. 1. shame it doesn't stay that way. Strength of Earth. you can seamlessly switch between the two without incurring any costs. You may not appreciate why this is important but if you were in a speed running guild or parse guild you’d understand why spec swapping mid raid under mines your place on the roster and makes you less valuable as a class to have a round. If you are worried about PvE balance add a 15-30min cooldown, problem solved THIS IS THE RIGHT DECISION! I think the simplest way to deal with the respec issue is to have a weekly reset of the respec cost to 10 gold and then have it increase by 5g with each respec. howdy, I cant remember if TBC we can use stance dance macros, for example starting in Bat stance, then a spell for example Spell reflect or Disarm, which will go into Def Stance via the macro… then back to Bat Stance, all with the same macro. but you can change spec everywhere. It is the ability to freely switch between two different specs for free. Frost everything as a beginner. Jeez, that 5g I've spent on ability ranks is really going to add up on top of the 100's I've spent on respec costs /s lol. A hunter pet from World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. Hello, back in the days there was a problem respeccing and. In Non Classic World of Warcraft, you can change your talent selections and specialization at no cost. But from my time on Nostalrius/Elysium I noticed that a lowered max respec cost (50g to 20g, I think) did lead to a healthier pvp population as it wasn't. Players selected to participate in the beta test will receive an email invitation directing them to download. Adding restrictions or a timer doesn’t work because people will just go and respec the old fashioned way. Alchemy Trainers. Map - The Carbonite map gives you all the information you need in one easy to use and flexible Google like map. Added in World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. 한 달. The closest would either be assassin rogue or arcane mage. Post by Rugiz what does it cost as max? Post by 113979 This post was from a user who has deleted their account. KazakaWoW • 1 yr. In this Class Trainer guide, we will detail the locations of all Mage Class Trainers for the Wrath Classic. And if you haven't misclicked a talent point and had to pay to respec again, have you really experienced this game? With a minimum of 3 specs, you could at least have two roles and a PvP spec. Classes in Wrath of the Lich King Classic will earn a total of 71 talent points, allowing them to take talents from multiple trees, though most builds typically invest the majority of their points in one tree, while taking only select bonuses in the others. Asmongold's Twit. Its extensive travel hub makes it an attractive. 04) Radius: 8 yards PVP Multiplier: 1: Flags: Cannot be used while shapeshifted; Cannot be reflected; All spell effects are harmful; No Aura IconIn this section of the guide, we will be going over all the essential talents, what they do and what the options are. ago. Elixir Master. ago. Talented is amazing - you can save profiles to instantly swap to after a respec. Arms also serves as the main PvP spec for battlegrounds and arenas. Also use. ago. You can upload your raid logs and the site will give each player a parse percentage based on how much damage or healing they do on each boss compared to other people of the same class and spec. Cost: Battleworn Thrash Blade: One Hand Sword: 200x Stone Keeper's Shard: Grand Staff of Jordan: Staff: 325x Stone Keeper's Shard: Reforged Truesilver Champion:. <br /><br />Does anyone. Then it will So you can get your repsec cost to 15g and as long as you don't respec more then once a month the decay will drop it back to 15g from 20g20 vials cost you 7,2 gold (if you have enough rep which you will surely have at least in one city) you are going to make 20 elixir of major agilities with herbs being gathered. rRobban. The largest Wrath of the Lich King Classic site, featuring detailed guides, news, and information including class guides, profession guides, Best in Slot guides, a quest database, talent calculator, and more. In WotLK you need to be Goblin to use these new sapper charges. August 10, 2022. 50g respec price tag is brutal. I assume you're going heal -> shadow -> heal? In WoW Classic and The Burning Crusade, reset talents points is very annoying. Started in late Vanilla, played through the end of WOTLK. Many players hope that will change for WoW Classic Burning Crusade. You really only want to do this pretty sparingly, because each time you do reset your talent the price will go up (starts at 1g and goes up in 5g intervals until capping out at 50g). ️ All classes & specs. I myself have a druid on the way to 80, I wish they would kill the level restriction, because I hate paying 50g to respec resto, then back to feral, just so I can run an instance. Patch 1. Also what are thoughts on Elemental Sham for classic PvP. 37 Yarasin • 1 yr. It's still total and utter bull crap, there shouldn't be a level cap, or even a cost, what about those people who are leveling alts or other stuff. Unlike other builds in WoW Classic, Protection has no room for personal preference or change at all. Profession Changes in Season of Mastery. if it costs 10g or less it wount decrease. Reply reply LordOfTheAyylmaos • Don't. I don’t know what to say to get this more attention. At least in phase 1. There are only positive things from it other than people whining and bitching because #classic #nochanges and other bullshit. I’m lvl 13, first time player…. Enchant your boots. Instead, reduce the cost of respeccing, so I can go from Arms to Prot more often and essentially play what is needed when its needed. Enchant your boots to have an 8% speed increase. Ungoro_Crater • • 2 yr. ilvl 232 tier pieces can be purchased without the Trophy using only Emblems of Triumph from Aspirant. Add a Comment. 66 Likes. defined as cleave damage that comes at zero or minimal cost to the player's single target boss damage,. Once you hit 50g, it goes back to 10g, with a 10g drop per month starting 30 days after you reach 50g. Cast Multi-Shot (Unlocked at level 18) if you are fighting 2 or more enemies. At 48 I decided to respec my ret spec to holy (my other spec is prot. I don't think a respec will make you win 2 hours in a dungeon, even if you run multiple dungeon in the night, i think you won't win 2 hours by running an optimal build rather than just play feral with restoration spec. If you still have some. Simply put: Class trainers are only found in Azeroth. From what I understand, it costs 50g at level 65 and 150g at 70 in order to respec. Does appear to be really inconsistent based on the comments here. 3). Dual talent specialization is a great feature and a big step forward from TBC to WotLK. There have already been a couple things I have picked up on that never was in classic and no one has. Aspect Mastery. They contain 3 Emblems of Conquest and a small stack of gold. The respec cost is total BS. As little as less than $1 a month to enjoy an ad-free experience, unlock premium features, and support the site! Show 142 Comments. View Profile. Aspect of the Hawk - Increases the attack power bonus by 30%. 4. Originally Posted by Casin. You won't get 2200 with a pve spec. From 432 to 435 both are green meaning you have the same chance to skill up, yet one costs way way less. 0 * The cost to unlearn talents will now decay over time. Will the cost likely increase going into WotLK? Did the cost in fact increase with the release of TBC? Talent Respec Costs. Switching specs just means switching between the two pages. Also, I checked on May. Beerkeg-argent-dawn. They contain 3 Emblems of Conquest and a small stack of gold. This is the default build that you will take as a Protection Paladin. Berehap. Post Reply. When. The alternative is, at level 40, to invest 1,000 gold (which I honestly doubt. The Wrath of the Lich King Classic beta test has begun! Over the course of the test, we’ll be inviting opt-in beta testers and more to check out the upcoming Classic expansion and give us feedback. Aspect of the Monkey - Reduces the damage done to you while active by 5%. In the Two-Handed Maces category. Apply filter. 3. Crusader recipe cost me another 200g. Sir_Bohne. At higher levels the Rep rewards are decreased substantially. This is correct. 1-45 — You need around 70 Bolt of Linen Cloth for future skill-ups. 0 coins. 프리미엄. It needs a 30-60 minute cool down and can only be activated in a city. 88 and includes the previous mount offers AND the following new items: Festering Emerald Drake mount in Wrath of Lich King Classic™ Gargantuan Grrloc mount in. However, if you want to make a change to one of your "locked" specs it will cost gold. Reply reply [deleted] • Or you can just be a sensible person and understand that faking pop to milk the "donation. The. There's talk that Blizzard might impliment a dual-spec system, where you have two specs that you can switch between while out of combat, or alternatively you'd have to go back to the trainer to go back, but they aren't going to remove the cost entirely for a complete respec. In no way does that constitute “sh1tposting”. Frankly, Dual spec is a terrible idea. Welcome to my world mate. Weapon skilla aren’t so bad if you level with the same weapon time. WotLK Professions & Skills. You could get rank 14 with a PvE spec, but its different in TBC. (thanks Gillero) Head to your favorite hyperspawns and apply Thorns to your lowbie character, then start mob tagging. Already available since prepatch of wotlk classic at literally any classtrainer for 1k gold. Tips & Tricks for WotLK Classic Leveling. 2. #2. Blizzard has ZERO respect not only to own employees but also to people who play hybrid classes. They like to eat meat. Am I right in thinking the cost will reduce from 1000 to 10g following a patch after release? 1. If you wish to specialize in transmutation, I would recommend that you seek the help of the ethereal known as Zarevhi. ago. I sort of remember a long time ago there was an auto swap or gear swap addon that allowed you to quickly make the change without having to go through your bags trying to figure out which items to put on your character. First off, the game just isn't balanced around it. Have you never seen classic WoW fans argue high respec costs were a good thing either? Not really, no. Affected Spells: Strength of Earth. The guide will help you to reach level 80 a lot faster. If you want to reset a whole Talent tree, you can right-click on a Talent in the upper row, and you will automatically unlearn all talents. Customer Support is not able to assist with resetting talents. The following information is here to provide further context to the guidance given in the table above: 350-375 — You will need these for later Engineering levels, so make them all now while it offers skill-ups. so it does not make sense to list specs that are just a respec button away from being competitively useful. Post by RugizCap talent reset cost to 25g. ago. Dual Talent Specialization (or dual spec) is a skill players at level 30 can learn in exchange for 10 from their class trainers. 100 gold is atleast 2 hours farming. That explains it. It's all but impossible. Mining will allow you to farm your own materials without needing to buy them on the auction house. Welcome to Wowhead's Feral Druid DPS PvE Class Overview guide for Wrath of the Lich King Classic! This guide will help you improve at your class and role, improving your knowledge to face the hardest Dungeons and Raids from Wrath of the Lich King Classic. PvE tier list for Phase 3 of Wrath of the Lich King Classic, ranking the best DPS specs for Phase 3 Trial of the Grand Crusader. Adict-whitemane June 11, 2021, 3:55pm #1. • 4 yr. Reduces the cooldown of your Overpower and Revenge abilities by 2 seconds and increases the damage done by both abilities by 10%. By capping the cost at 10g, it ensures that frequent respecs can quickly accumulate into a large gold bill, but also allows a player to respec for a short time at the cost of 20g instead of 100g. Please. Leveling tips: Always use it at the start of fighting Hand of Reckoning damage is only dealt if the monster hasn’t targeted you yet;; Seal of Command best seal you have available while leveling, which gives you cleave function (max 3 unit dmg);; Blessing of Wisdom is your main blessing until around. It’s not a very effective “gold sink” because most people don. Welcome to Warcraft Tavern’s Engineering guide! In this guide, we’ll provide everything you need to max out your Engineering skill, from the materials required to level up your profession to the best recipes to follow. Anyway, 50golds isn’t really hard to get in Classic i don’t know why it’ll feel “expansive” in TBC. NO spec swapping mid raid. I know back in the days the idea was for the game to be hard so you can keep coming back and stay online and grind, thus expensive talent respec…Check out my Goldmaking Guide for Wrath of the Lich King Classic: is a Goldmaking Guide I've spent several. Players starting alchemy in WotLK will almost certainly do transmute master (since you can simply buy all the mats with gold) and then swap. KazakaWoW • 1 yr. Search forums:Hinzugefügt in World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. You can pick up the Master of Elixirs quest from Lorokeem in Shattrath City. The majority of the expansion content takes place in Northrend and centers around the plans of the Lich King. They should have dual spec in TBC but sadly blizzard is stupid. WoW Classic: Resetting Talents Guide - Millenium. In no way does that constitute “sh1tposting”. At least, that’s the idea I think they were going for. Anyone that did manage to get Dual Spec free of charge is allowed to keep it with no repercussions. Their best utility was their. I know the whole #nochanges and I agree but I don’t see how dual spec like the one back in WOTLK would hurt the experience of the game. Now get axes (if you want to invest money flurryaxe + deep wounds for example). ok. The Journeyman riding skill will require you to be level 60. Dual spec sounds great in theory, but the implementation would take time and money for blizzard which aint gonna happen. Even at low levels if you make a mistake this seems hugely punishing. Now that we have dual spec it is a pain trying to equip and unequip the 2 sets of gear for the different specs I have. Slows and more survivability. As for hitting 40, it's your choice to respec to pure shadow for Shadowform. ago. this build its way better then shadow in pve, mana efficent and i kill mobs my level in 15 seconds (15 seconds of x2 spirit bonus boosts my +dmg by hellalot) i heal 30% of my mana while casting +50% when theres spirit tap so its like 80% mana regen all the way. Secondly, this was a big feature added in the wotlk. Bounty Satchels are the reward for completing the daily Heroic+ dungeon. This epic ring of item level 251 goes in the "Finger" slot. You need to go to the npc your learned your specialization from and give them 150g, it will unlearn your specialization. Step up at lvl 80 from BC to WotLK is (182/150) = 1. On BWL release flasks were 180g-220g each. As I sit here attempting to find a Heroic group on my rogue (which is often. ago • Edited 4 yr. So I know it ultimately becomes 100g to respec. Learn to master the world through the judicious use of high explosives and fantastic gear! <name>, read this manual. Jordan's Smithing Hammer. Respeccing to try different off-meta specs is one of the most fun parts of classic WoW since you have so much spec flexibility. I always see this argument brought up when dual spec is discussed.